Men at War: Luke Turner (1943)
Luke Turner, author of Men at War: Loving, Lusting, Fighting, Remembering 1939-1945
In this beautifully described episode the writer and editor Luke Turner takes us back to 1943 to present us with a refreshingly different view of World War 2.
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As a boy, Luke was fascinated by the Second World War. He found the stories of heroism and daring glamorous and the engineering of the machines that featured in them fascinating. Not to mention, there was a certain appeal about the handsome men in uniform who looked out at him from the black and white photographs. As he started to get older, however, Luke found himself wanting to interrogate these stories a little more.
In his latest book, Men At War, Luke reminds us that war is a cultural experience as well as a military contest. It profoundly changes the lives of the men who fight, not just physically and psychologically, but also in the lasting impact it has on their sense of their masculinity, bodies and sexuality.
A man conscripted to fight in 1939 suddenly found that his body was no longer his own, but a tool to be used by the state in service of his king and country. How well he responded to being put in life threatening situations – whether he was courageous or cowardly – became a metric for his masculinity. War also opened up previously unexplored sexual and romantic opportunities. The knowledge that you might not live to see another day propelled people forward to pursue whatever it was that gave them the most pleasure and joy in an otherwise violent and unpredictable world.
What did it feel like to drop bombs on a German city one night, and be home in time to have a pint in your local the following evening? How did it feel to be a conscientious objector, shunned and shamed by your community? What was it like to be revered by your peers for your military prowess but keep the person you love a secret?
In this episode Luke introduces us to four extraordinary men who fought and died in the war. The young poet Bertam Warr who started off as a pacifist but found himself, by the end, dropping bombs over Essen. The dashing RAF pilot Ian Gleed, who destroyed 13 enemy aircraft and always made time to secretly visit his boyfriend in between operations. And finally, the soldiers Dan Billany and David Dowie who met in a prisoner of war camp in Italy and wrote a radical novel together about unrequited gay love based off of their own relationship.
The stories that feature in this episode are covered in much more depth in Luke’s fascinating new book. Men at War: Loving, Lusting, Fighting, Remembering 1939-1945 is published by Orion.
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Show Notes
Scene One: 3-4 April 1943. RAF Lissett, Bridlington, East Yorkshire.
Scene Two: 16 April 1943. Off the coast of North Africa with Wing Commander Ian Gleed of the RAF.
Scene Three: November 1943. A couple of hundred miles north of the Allied line with Lieutenant Dan Billany.
Memento: The cockpit door from Ian Gleed’s hurricane.
People/Social
Presenter: Artemis Irvine
Guest: Luke Turner
Production: Maria Nolan
Podcast partner: Ace Cultural Tours
Theme music: ‘Love Token’ from the album ‘This Is Us’ By Slava and Leonard Grigoryan
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About Luke Turner
Luke Turner is a writer and editor. He co-founded the influential music website The Quietus where he runs a regular podcast and radio show. He has contributed to the Guardian, Vice, NME, Q, Mojo, Monocle, Dazed & Confused, Nowness and Somesuch Stories, among other publications.
He lives in London. Luke Turner’s first book, the critically acclaimed memoir Out of the Woods, was a reflection on sexuality, masculinity and the relationship between humans and nature. Out of the Woods was shortlisted for the 2019 Wainwright Prize for nature writing, longlisted for the Polari Prize for first book by an LGBT+ writer, and Turner was selected by Val McDermid as one of 10 most important LGBT+ writers for a British Council and National Centre for Writing initiative.
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